The 46,000 Missing Trusses of 9/11

by Scott Creighton (reposted from Aug 9th 2009)

also read Sneak Peak: Revised Demolition Theory Hypothesis

***UPDATE*** note the updated truss count. My original estimate of 23,000 trusses was based on the idea that they used single trusses in between the section breaks when in fact they did not, they used double trusses everywhere on each floor. My first count was based on doing a layout of the truss structure and then simply counting and multiplying that number by the number of floors which used these trusses. Turns out, the number of missing trusses is actually double my original number… about 43,000 – 46,000. With that one exception, I believe the research in this article still stands.

***UPDATE*** Please check out the companion article, The 6,000.

According to the official explanation of the collapse of the Twin Towers on Sept. 11th, 2001… the initial plane crashes damaged the core structure of the towers enough so that when the resulting fires “weakened” the floor trusses, the result was that the remaining floors above the areas of the plane crash and fires crashed down on the undamaged parts of the buildings, and “pulverized” them in a gravity driven demolition of sorts.

This “official” explanation, which if left unchallenged, stands as the basis for the endless “War on Terror”, the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, the attacks on the general population of Pakistan, the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, warrentless and illegal surveillance of U.S. citizens, and various other assaults on our democratic freedoms… is basically a lie.

It is impossible.

Sometimes in an investigation, what you don’t find at the crime scene is just as important as what you do find.  Provided you know what to look for and you understand why it is or isn’t there.

With that in mind, I offer for your consideration, the great mystery of the missing Trusses and Floor-Pans of the World Trade Center towers 1 and 2… and the (estimated) 10 tons of “iron-rich” spheres found in the dust at Ground Zero by every single investigative agency that has bothered to look.

First: What exactly were the floor trusses and how were they used?

The floor trusses were used to span the distance between the 47 core columns and connecting beams of the “core” of the Twin Towers (the heart of the strength of the design) and the 200+ exterior columns that made up the distinctive look of the outside of the buildings.

(click on image for larger view)

Typical cross section

Typical cross section

This is a typical cross section of the construction design of the exterior column connection of the columns and the trusses themselves. It is to scale.  These are the trusses that the NIST report concluded “bowed” inward and caused the exterior columns to “buckle” thus causing the “collapse sequence  initiation” that resulted in the destruction of the towers.

The drawing is mine and it is just a rough sketch designed to give the readers here a basic understanding of how the trusses were used. The source material for this comes from the actual construction drawings of the towers themselves and the FEMA report and NIST report details pages. Here is one of them.

FEMA Truss connection detail

FEMA Truss connection detail

As you can see, my representation is rather accurate in the depiction of the truss and how it is used relative to the construction of the towers themselves.

You can see that there 12′ height from floor to floor, but with the depth of the trusses and the dropped ceiling, the finished ceiling height was around 8′.  This is also evidenced by the NIST report as well as from this photograph of a typical WTC North Tower office layout.

Typical WTC Office floor

Typical WTC Office floor

To give you a still better understanding of how the floor trusses were used in the design of the Twin Towers, again I refer to the FEMA report.

FEMA WTC floor truss system

FEMA WTC floor truss system

The trusses and floor-pans (“Metal Deck”) were fabricated off site in very large sections and transported to the construction site where they were hoisted via cranes into position and welded and bolted in place.

The steel construction of the floor system sections was mainly A-36 structural steel, commonly used in high rise buildings, with a melting temp of around 2750 degs.

Carbon steels which can successfully undergo heat-treatment have a carbon content in the range of 0.30–1.70% by weight. Trace impurities of various other elements can have a significant effect on the quality of the resulting steel. Trace amounts of sulfur in particular make the steel red-short. Low alloy carbon steel, such as A36 grade, contains about 0.05% sulfur and melts around 1426–1538 °C (2600–2800 °F).  Wiki

(I am deliberately using FEMA and NIST diagrams for two reasons: 1. that you understand that my information at this point is supported by the documents of the “official story” itself so that you don’t think this is some “crack pot” obscure reference… and 2. so that you will come to understand my question later about how does NIST and FEMA both spend so much time explaining the presence of the trusses in the construction of the towers.. and so little time wondering just what could have happened to them.)

Second: Relative size and overall numbers of the trusses themselves.

In order to give you a better understanding of the relative size of the trusses, I created a few 3d models that accurately represent them. The first is an isometric view coupled with an elevation of just one truss along side a 6′ tall figure of a man.

Elevation and Isometric view of a truss

Elevation and Isometric view of a truss

As you can see, the trusses themselves are quite long, the longest of the standard trusses was about 59′ and the shortest of them was 35′.  The transverse trusses that spanned through the trusses and locked them all together were even longer on average.

Now that you have an idea of what the trusses looked like and what they did, lets take a minute to see how many of them there were, per floor. The following is from the architectural design drawing of the world trade center as well as from the FEMA report.

Typical Truss layout, Plan View

Typical Truss layout, Plan View

[note: that number should be revised to 200+]

What you see here is the truss layout in plan view.  The light blue colored lines are the trusses themselves and the magenta would be the transverse trusses or what the FEMA diagram calls the “Bridging Trusses”.

The truss count on this drawing that I did is an estimate based on the drawings that I found. There were some trusses that were doubled up as “girder” trusses to carry the live load of other trusses, so the count I have up there is a bit low. But basically, it is pretty accurate;  about 106 trusses per floor.

Now look back up at the isometric view of the truss.  There were 106 of those large, structural steel elements, per floor.

[edit] The towers themselves were 110 floors.  Do the math. 212 trusses x 110 floors = 23,320 trusses per tower

[edit] But wait… there were TWO Twin Towers felled that day and when you look at the photos of the aftermath of the “collapse” of the buildings, the debris is mixed together at Ground Zero… so what you are really looking for is the 46,000+ structural steel trusses (and connected floor pans) of the Twin Towers.

That’s a lot of 60′ and 35′ long trusses that could NOT have been “pulverized” like the concrete floors or the desks. They were structural steel.

These two images will give you an idea of how they were used and the shear volume of the trusses compared to the rest of the material of the buildings.

First we have an isometric view of only 2 (two) floors of the towers, again drawn to scale based on the construction drawings and the NIST and FEMA reports collectively.

Two floors of WTC Tower

Two floors of WTC Tower

The trusses are drawn in the light blue color and you can see how they span the distance between the core of the towers and the exterior columns.  For a better understanding of the shear volume of the trusses I have dropped out the columns for this next image.  Remember it is just two floors.

Trusses from Two Floors, Isometric View

Trusses from Two Floors, Isometric View

We are talking about a MASSIVE amount of floor trusses.

Third: What you don’t see is the key.

According to the official explanation of what happened to those towers, the upper section of the buildings came crashing down on the lower floors and “pulverized” the concrete floors while crushing the structure of the buildings themselves.

There have been many scientists and engineers who have attempted to prove that there just isn’t the energy in the falling upper section of the building to do what the “official explanation” says happened.  In my opinion, they are correct.

However, let’s pretend for a moment that the official explanation is correct, taken at face value.  What does that mean for the trusses and the floor pans?

The steel trusses and floor pans would not “pulverize”. In fact, they would probably shift one way or the other, connected together as they were, and lay pretty much flat, just dominoed as it were, together.

Even if they were somehow separated from one another, the tell-tale signs of the trusses would be everywhere: the zig-zaged tension and compression rod running through the trusses.  Remember, there were over 23,000 of them over 35′ long.

You couldn’t POSSIBLY miss them. They should be scattered all over Ground Zero.

Yet, strangely, they are not.

The following images come from a group of high resolution photos I have found depicting the debris in the aftermath at Ground Zero. You will see lots of exterior columns and interior columns… you will see the pulverized concrete dust by the tons… and you will see the aluminum cladding that made of the exterior surface of the buildings and lots of steel rebar that had been inside the concrete floors…

What I dare you to find is ONE… just ONE truss.  Just ONE of the 23,000+ steel trusses that fell to the ground that day and COULDN’T have been pulverized by the falling debris.  The photos are all high res so I invite you to click on them and explore to your hearts content.

debris trucks 1

debris trucks 1

debris trucks 3

debris trucks 3

Sept 13th 2001

Sept 13th 2001

FEMA photo WTC306

FEMA photo WTC306

Sept. 17th 2001

Sept. 17th 2001

Fire Fighters at Ground Zero

Fire Fighters at Ground Zero

Sonnenfeld at WTC

Sonnenfeld at WTC

Now remember what the webbing (tension and compression) from the trusses look like. They have the tight angles, in a repeating pattern, over a long span.  Don’t be confused by the rebar that was in the concrete floors.  What you see to the right of Mr. Sonnenfeld is rebar.

I have personally been over and over these photos and many others. I have yet to find one single truss.  Not one.

23,000 trusses in the Ground Zero debris, and NOT ONE is visible in the photos?  Does that seem odd to anyone else?

Of course it does.

But just because they aren’t visible, doesn’t mean they aren’t THERE.

Forth and final part: What are the “Tons” of “iron rich spheres

Ever since the beginning of the investigation into the events of 911 almost every single ‘official” and unofficial report has mentioned the discovery of the “iron rich spheres” found in the dust collected from Ground Zero.

The RJ Lee report and the FEMA report as well as the investigative work of Steven Jones and others all make mention of these mysterious metal spheres mixed in with the pulverized concrete dust.  This is what they look like.

WTC Iron Rich Sphere

WTC Iron Rich Sphere

The important thing here is the language they use to describe these “spheres’ found in in the dust.

“Iron rich” implys that they are iron, but they are also made up of other metals and alloys, and of course… carbon.

Why is this important?  Because “steel” is made up of mainly IRON mixed in with small amounts of carbon and, depending on the type of steel, other elements.  Steel itself is “iron rich”. The structural steel of the trusses… is itself “iron rich”.

The thermite that others have been considering as the source of these spheres creates molten iron… not molten iron and carbon. Plus the shear volume of the spheres found in the dust (at one time suggested by Jones to be about 10 tons) suggests that they must have come from a structural element of the towers themselves.

The trusses.

At the moment of detonation, a high explosive, strong enough to pulverize the concrete floors, would also have to burn hot enough to instantly melt the trusses themselves thus creating the microscopic “iron rich” spheres found by FEMA, RJ Lee, and Steven Jones.  But also it would explain the “molten metal” that burned in the debris pile for weeks after 9/11.

Hypthetical demo sequence

Hypothetical demolition sequence

There is only ONE high explosive used in the demolition industry capable of that kind of combined result: PETN.

Curiously, each and every single investigation that has been done on the “collapse” of the Twin Towers, RJ Lee, FEMA, NIST, and even the Jones/Harrit paper, has gone out of their way to make the statement that they DID NOT test for residual trace elements of conventional explosives in the debris from Ground Zero.

Conclusion: The official explanation for the collapse of the towers cannot be accurate.

There is no amount of pressure that could possibly have been present in the collapse of the Twin Towers that would explain the pulverization of the trusses into the steel micro-spheres found in the dust at Ground Zero.

At the moment of collapse, those trusses were in the buildings and judging from the visual evidence of the photos afterward, they were not after the buildings came down.

If the pulverization of the floors couldn’t have rendered the trusses into micro-spheres of “iron rich” droplets, what in fact did do it?

As is often the case, the simplest explanation is often the most accurate.

Test the remaining evidence from Ground Zero for trace elements of explosive materials commonly used in the demolition industry with special attention given to PETN and RDX.

The photographs don’t lie. They are a living record of the crime of 911.  And from them we can and will finally prove, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the official story of what happened that day cannot be accurate.

Sometimes what isn’t visible at a crime scene is just as important as what is.

95 Responses

    • Excellent post…missing trusses, floorpans, and concrete took massive amounts of energy. WTC 6 is also very telling…

      A closer look at the Naomi Stock photo of WTC 2 impact

  1. Bravo! Even I understand this explanation and mystery of the trusses……. and those heavy floor plates? Where are they?
    And where is the carpet?
    It is like Willy says…. the entire floor structure is gone…. well, gone as far as seeing the remaining shapes of them…
    I bet ‘they’ have destroyed any remaining dust or particle collections from ground zero.
    There simply has to be another through investigation.. and not done by FEMA or Nist….. who could be trusted to do it?

  2. I can’t think of one person within the government that I trust. Not one.

  3. Thank you, this is great work.

  4. Well Scott, I have to agree with you.

  5. Scott… you do really xlnt work! I wish I had the time to do more to support your efforts. I esp enjoyed the pdf of the aussie guy with common sense evaluation of the wtc 7 collapse. I wonder every day how we can get thru the dense knuckleheads who still think 911 was caused by some raghead in a cave. Unbelievable how gullible and stupid the general puplic is. The enormity of their ignorance is unfathomable. Even reasonably “intelligent” people – like my family for instance (lots of phds and advanced degrees) – still have their heads up their fundament. Sub cranial rectal insertion seems to be the norm of the day. That’s why I live in a remote area, 2500 miles from the nearest contiinent, away from any city, and keep to myself. Aloha, cinderman.

  6. It would be nice if Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth would comment on the absence of evidence of trusses. Has there been any word?

    • Real Truther:

      I don’t know if they have done anything on this or not. I should send it to them, see if anyone has any photos of Ground Zero with trusses visible.

      BTW, nice article you guys have up on Jim Hoffman. Ever since that guy started using the FBI “evidence” from the “20th hijacker trial” to support the OCT story about the Pentagon, I knew he was a plant.

      Then of course, his “Hypothetical Blast Scenario” paper was just ridiculous. Hundreds of illegal immigrants running around placing 1.8 million “ceiling tile bombs” was absolutely laughable.

      Anyway, good stuff over there at your site.

  7. Hey cinderman, you also live very close to a huge volcano……. Oh well…. if it isn’t one thing… it’s another.

  8. “23,320 structural steel trusses (and connected floor pans) of the Twin Towers.” 23320/10 tons of spheres=
    ? 23320 trusses at maybe 2000lbs each > =2332 tons
    46640000 lbs of trusses and 20000lbs of spheres leaves46620000 lbs of missing,thats like 4% in spheres or melted someplace?where are the jet engines that flew out the other side of each tower they hit the street?Where are the file cabinets and furniture and bodies and lakes of body parts?
    the 4% could be the linear footage of explosives used on them and possibly extended into and estimated total amout used.How the hell did they do this big job in secret? they HAD to know something was rotten in the cellar ,even at night and in deep cover this would have taken years to install?They knew that in ’93 they were at risk? where was security the cops?
    There MUST have also been restraing cables installed to cotrol the falling sections ,see the pull back video of the top 25 floor sectiog,These steel cables would have to be drilled and bolted thru IN SECRET, lots of noise and not one honest cop noticed nothin.BS.

    • Hi Boo;

      I agree with what you’re saying with one small correction.

      The trusses themselves are made up of 3″x2″ angle steel (4 pieces – two top two bottom) and the various 3/4″ (or 1/2″) steel rod that made up the “webbing” in between. Very very lightweight, yet very rigid..

      my guess for the weight of each would be between 150 and 300 lbs (and even that might be a bit high).

  9. They started a remodel project at our hospital sometime back–years back, in fact, and it’s still going on. Anytime you walk in there, you’re as liable as not to run into a sheltered off section that was open the day before–Hilti drills hammering away behind it, air compressor hoses and heavy electric cables strung out all over the place, and workers from all trades doing their work, and otherwise coming and going.

    People get used to it, barely even notice it.

    Back in another day, a crew I was working on was putting up a 52 unit apartment building–almost all steel and masonry. There wasn’t a pick-up load of new dimension lumber needed in the whole place because we always cleaned up our used form lumber and hauled it from job to job. There was a flatbed trailer piled high with it right there on the job site, but one Friday afternoon another flatbed load of new lumber pulled up. The job supervisor was away somewhere, so we started to unload it in the lobby–the only part that was done enough to keep it out of the weather.

    We were about half done when he pulled up. “No, no,” he tells us. “Take that out by the curb.” We did, and Monday morning it was gone–gone to another job the same company was doing, but charged to the HUD job we were working on. One of the guys called HUD to report it, and was told to mind his own business.

    Sometimes you can be working on a crime scene, and not even know it–or be noticed.

    R Ap

  10. good point ..Roy.

  11. Jan… course correction… I live on top of the world’s most active volcano – in fact just a couple miles from the most recent eruption. So we might say that explosions are a sensitive topic for me 🙂

  12. Regarding the trusses – I think it’s simple physics. When steel gets hot enough it simply oxidizes (rusts) or burns. You know you can ignite fine steel wool with just a match? The dust debris field was filled with iron oxide particles. So heat + explosives turned everything to dust. I personally see no great mystery here. They must have placed thousands of tons of explosives, whatever they were. It was classic controlled demolitions that took those 3 bldgs down. Whether it was thermate, thermite, or a heckuva lot of steel eating termites – it was an unprecedented attack by our govt on our own citizenry. Horrendous crime.

    • Cinderman:

      The Twin Towers were each, roughly double the size of the current world record controlled demolition held by CDI; the JL Hudson building in downtown Detroit demoed in 1998.

      At 2.2 million square feet, the Hudson building was about 1/2 the size of each of the Twin Towers: around 4.5 million sq feet.

      During the demolition, 12 people from CDI worked for 20 days to set the charges to bring it down. They set 4,ooo charges and over 36,000 feet of det cord was used for a total of 2,700+ pounds of explosives.

      That’s 1.3 tons to bring down a building (roughly the same time frame as the Towers (1998 verses 2001)) half the size of each tower…

      Meaning that “thousands of tons of explosives” as you put it, would NOT have been needed to bring down those towers.

      In fact, per tower, using an actual example of a controlled demolition done at about the same time, we are talking about 2.6 tons of explosives, or we can round up to 3 if you like.

      3 tons of high explosives per tower, to completely demolish the World Trade Centers… not “thousands of tons”.

      Oh yeah, notice how they mention det cord in that…

      I mention this because I know that many places have tried to push the idea that thousands of tons of explosives would be needed. I hear it all the time. It just isn’t the case. (In fact, the Hudson building was a very different design, and would probably have required more explosives per square foot than the Towers).

      You can read all about it, here.

  13. Wel cinderman, at least you have more new created rock foundation to run to at the next main event…..although most of the new terrain is under water (sea). I saw a photo of one huge area…. a lone tree was growing in the cracks of the lava…. amazing.

    You must have quite a view! 🙂

  14. Willy, guess that means the Towers could have been set up in about three weeks? Right under the office workers’ noses…..
    I will never trust on site workers anymore….. who knows what they are doing….

    • Jan:

      There are various records of the security company that managed the Trade Centers running a “high speed cable” “upgrade” for about a year prior to Sept. 11th. This is recorded fact and is not questioned by those who research the events of 911.

      That same security company, Securacom, had Bush’s brother on the board of directors. Incidentally, they also controlled security at two of the airports where the “terrorists” supposedly boarded the planes.

      There was no rush to set the det cord.

      There are also reports that starting about 3 to 4 weeks prior to 911, there was an increase in construction activity taking place at the Twin Towers.

      A witness testified that he came in on several days right before 911 and noticed this thin film of what looked like concrete dust covering the desks and window sills of the office and lobby area.

      Even with the det cord, there would have to be some RDX charges planted that would require drilling into concrete.

      So yes, I think they had plenty of time to set the det cord and, like you said, about 3 to 4 weeks prior to the demolition, they probably came in and actually set the other, RDX type, charges.

      • Re the post, I had the same questions. I looked at literally hundreds of images of the WTC complex in the aftermath, and have never been able to find any trace of even a piece of the corrugated steel decking that supported the concrete flooring or even one twisted floor truss. And after looking at many images and architectural drawings of the very dense steel core structure of the twin towers, even more amazing that only a bit of the exterior structure was left standing. Why was not even a part of the steel core left standing? At the base the box columns were something like 6″ thick, and there was a very dense web of steel bolted and welded all around the box column structure.

        Whatever happened, it certainly doesn’t appear to be anything conventional.

        • Of course it was conventional. PETN when ignited creates temperatures in excess of 8,100 deg. f. the surface of the sun is around 9,400. That’s what created all those metal and glass microspheres. It vaporized the floorpans and trusses because the det cord was right there planted inside the flooring systems. that’s why all the concrete was pulverized along with nearly everything else. And you might note, much of the core system was still there, just cut up into ready to transport lengths. It’s pretty much all that remained. Again, if you research how they do explosive controlled demolition, you will find this fits neatly into their model. The only difference really is the fact that they didn’t care about spreading dust all over New York. They didn’t care because they weren’t going to have to pay for the cleanup.

  15. Speaking of neighborhoods, I remember seeing pictures of the people on the streets round about the towers that morning, running from the roiling cloud of the first one to come down like they were running from some Godzilla-like thing.

    R Ap

  16. Willy… I admit I don’t know jack about controlled demolitions. My only experience is dynamite and gunpowder, and I guess the stuff they used was far more powerful. In fact, when I was a kid a bunch of us made all sorts of bombs, and had firecracker and cherry bomb fights – we’d stuff them in oranges and what not and line up on either end of the street – kinda like “gangs of ny” – and throw them at each other. Btw… geez I don’t know how to send you a link here, but maybe I can post a pic of my neighborhood volcano. I’ll send you a pic in an em, maybe you can post that.

  17. What utter insanity. There isn’t a force known to mankind that could have removed the trusses from the debris during the collapses, but half a million tons falling from a quarter mile will certainly deform most of them beyond recognition. You’ve cherry picked photos, and for some reason seem to think that everyone at GZ for eight months was just stupid, or in on the plot. Why is it that only twoofers who weren’t there have noticed this alleged shortfall of material, and their only source of information is pictures? Good grief…

    • albury… many bits of misinformation in your short comment…

      “…and for some reason seem to think that everyone at GZ for eight months was just stupid, or in on the plot.”

      The mayor of New York forced the firemen off the recovery mission after about 10 days… not “eight months”… there are several stories about this.. firemen actually fought with the police and were arrested trying to get to GZ to recover the remains of the over 200 still missing firemen… the Mayor of New York deemed it necessary to “professionalize” the clean-up process… meaning he wanted just the contractors there… the contractors from CDI… a CONTROLLED DEMOLITION COMPANY

      “There isn’t a force known to mankind that could have removed the trusses from the debris during the collapses…”

      Actually that “force” is called “HIGH EXPLOSIVES”… specifically, PETN… burns hot enough to instantly melt the HDLA steel trusses if enough of it is used, AND it would pulverized the concrete floors. AND since PETN burns at a rate of about 8,000 meters per second, it could easily detonate in the 207 foot long floors with incredible speed.

      “… but half a million tons falling from a quarter mile…”

      That’s the overall height of the Towers, but that ISN’T how far the top section fell when it hit the lower, intact 90% of the Twin Towers… according to NIST that section fell about 2 floors… or 24 feet… HARDLY what you call “a quarter mile”…

  18. Ending the search and rescue phase of the debris removal is not the same as completing the work required to get the site buildable again, and that took almost eight months. CDI was only a small part of the operation, which involved roughly 40,000 workers altogether, many of them firefighters. And there isn’t a high explosive in the world that would selectively blow up trusses, or one that would demolish that quantity of material without leveling much of NYC and North Jersey in the process. Not all of the ~500,000 T of material fell the entire height of a tower, but the KE in the collapses of 110 4500-ton floors was more than enough to flatten floor trusses, which were nothing more than 4 angles with a combined weight of ~18#/ft, and held together by a 1.09″ steel rod. The claim that these trusses were missing is absurd, and if there were the slightest validity to it, we wouldn’t be hearing about it from some truther nut who wasn’t there and just has photos for an information source; it would have been front-page news in 2001.
    If you want to know what caused the WTC towers to fall, read NCSTAR1, or just examine the many collapse videos and photos taken just prior to collapse. The majority of NIST’s scenario can be seen in them, including the severed columns on the impact sides, and the inwardly-bowed columns on the opposite side of the North Tower, and adjacent and opposite sides off the South Tower, where the fires were most severe.
    Explosives would have been redundant, impossible to hide, would have been clearly heard just prior to each collapse, would have very noticeably scattered the smoke from the fires before the tops began to fall, and would have left unmistakable evidence in the debris. None of this happened.

    • As far as the missing trusses are concerned, you look through the pictures.. you find whatever pics you want, and you come back with a link to that pic that shows the missing trusses at Ground Zero, would ya? I would be very interested in seeing it. Just like I mentioned in the article above.

      You might also ask yourself what is the source of all the “iron rich spheres” that NIST, FEMA, and the RJ Lee report ALL mention in their evaluation of the dust. That’s a lot of spheres. And you think about that, and keep looking for those 23,000 trusses that should be littering Ground Zero… ok? You do that, and do a little research on the controlled demolition industry. See if you can figure out how they blow up floor systems and cut columns without “leveling new jersey”… you get a little info, and I will be glad to chat with you about this.

  19. There were no missing trusses at GZ, and the steel tonnage was accounted for when it was scrapped. Unlike perimeter column trees, some of which were snapped and expelled outward by the downward movement of the towers, horizontal systems of main trusses, bridging trusses, welded corrugated decking, and concrete anchored every 3′-4″ by a 1.09″ steel cross brace projecting through the top chord and into the slab would not have been “littering” the site, the trusses would have been compressed into compact layers, mostly within the footprint of the building, with many of them ending up in the six subterranean levels.
    The demolition industry rips out column enclosures and other architectural features that impede access to steel columns, scrapes off the SFRM, pre-cuts the steel with an acetylene torch, and then plants explosives and wires them for detonation. This would not have been possible to do secretly in a busy, occupied building for obvious reasons, and the planted explosives you’re fantasizing about would also not have survived plane crashes and an hour or so of intense fires.
    You are making the absurd claim that something selectively and completely blew up the trusses, but left other materials behind, and if that were even possible, which it isn’t, the energy would certainly have leveled the surrounding areas for miles.
    I suggest that you get a little information on how real controlled demolitions look and sound, and on the prep work necessary. This should be of some help:
    Regardless of how many explosive devices you think were planted at the WTC, the overpressure inside at detonation would have scattered the smoke very noticeably just prior to the collapses and before anything began falling, since the smoke was emanating from openings in the exterior walls, and the sound level would have been ~130 dB minimum at a half mile if the columns were pre-cut, so they’d have been considerably louder if they weren’t, and no one reported hearing smoke alarms going off every five minutes for months before 9/11. There would also have been abundant evidence of a C/D in the debris, and nothing was found. Your “theory” just doesn’t make sense, but NCSTAR 1 and 1A do. Feel free to read them; it will be a new experience for you, I’m sure.

    • “… You are making the absurd claim that something selectively and completely blew up the trusses, but left other materials behind…”

      actually, no, that is not what I said… the trusses were melted, the metal floor pans were ripped apart and melted, the concrete floors were pulverized, you can’t find ANY A/C ducts in the photos either, the ceiling tiles were pulverized (see any of those in the photos?) and the furniture was blown into small little pieces (so were the vast majority of the victims from that day)…

      so that is actually NOT what I said… try arguing my actual statements, not what you would LIKE for them to have been…

    • “… NCSTAR 1 and 1A do. Feel free to read them; it will be a new experience for you, I’m sure.”

      actually I have read a great deal of the NCSTAR as well as the FEMA reports that are located over there on the right side of the screen.

    • yeah, the “overpressure” and the “loud explosions” arguments made in the Building 7 report by NIST really isn’t that credible. I dealt with those arguments months ago when the report first came out (almost a year ago now…)…

      by the way, the person who told NIST those two reasons why it couldn’t be controlled demolition is the same guy who was in charge of the clean up of the site… you know, the guy who runs CDI? Yeah, that’s him AGAIN… funny how he keeps POPPING up, isn’t it?

    • “I suggest that you get a little information on how real controlled demolitions look and sound, and on the prep work necessary.”

      I suggest you look into the JL Hudson demolition job pulled off by CDI… they were able to blow that building without damaging ANY surrounding windows, according to the CDI website… so much more “over pressure” huh?

  20. completely blew up the trusses, but left other materials behind…”

    “actually, no, that is not what I said… the trusses were melted, the metal floor pans were ripped apart and melted, the concrete floors were pulverized, you can’t find ANY A/C ducts in the photos either, the ceiling tiles were pulverized (see any of those in the photos?) and the furniture was blown into small little pieces (so were the vast majority of the victims from that day)…

    so that is actually NOT what I said… try arguing my actual statements, not what you would LIKE for them to have been…”
    I would like them to make a little sense, but that boat already sailed. The trusses were not melted, vaporized, exploded, or anything other than weakened in the fires and crushed in the collapses, and since you claimed that a high explosive, PETN, was used you’ll have to explain why it didn’t pre-detonate in 1800-degree fires, since it goes off at ~375 F.
    And how,exactly, was this stuff put into contact with the trusses, assuming that tons of it got past PAPD and tenant security, or was it applied in the 70s when the towers were built, and passed off as Blaze-Shield SFRM? Yeah, that’s it; the plasterers who sprayed the stuff on didn’t know the difference.

  21. “I suggest you look into the JL Hudson demolition job pulled off by CDI… they were able to blow that building without damaging ANY surrounding windows, according to the CDI website… so much more “over pressure” huh?”
    The glass in the Hudson Building on the floors where the bulk of the charges were placed was removed, and glazing contractors were on standby to repair glass damage in nearby structures, so overpressure was definitely a concern. My comment was in reference to demolition blasts not scattering the smoke around the impact floors, and if the Hudson Building had also been enveloped in smoke when the charges went off, the pressure would definitely been seen in the smoke. Your “theory” assumes enough high explosives to make ~20 tons of trusses disappear, but not enough to disturb smoke in the area, or even to be heard immediately preceding any collapse. Must be some really special stuff, huh?

  22. “by the way, the person who told NIST those two reasons why it couldn’t be controlled demolition is the same guy who was in charge of the clean up of the site… you know, the guy who runs CDI? Yeah, that’s him AGAIN… funny how he keeps POPPING up, isn’t it?”

    Yeah, it’s amazing how many “conspirators” you twoofers can toss into the plot. Were the loud explosions in this video all faked too?

  23. Wow… did you actually link to a Mark Roberts video? A video by a former tour guide from New York who now makes his living trying to debunk the Truth movement?

    Mark Roberts is an idiot. Did you see that “debate” he had with Gage (architect of steel framed buildings)? OMG…

  24. There are so many eyewitnesses who have testified to hearing explosions going off during the collapse; seeing bright orange flashes going floor to floor, all around the building; hearing massive explosions prior to and during the collapse…

    Just take the time to look up the Oral Histories; testimonies by the first responders, cops, and firemen on the scene.

    The oral histories are there, the videos of the firefighters talking on the phone as those 2 massive explosions are heard are there…

    and though you don’t like it, the fact remains that your witness who stated that it couldn’t be controlled demolition because the windows in adjacent buildings would have been blown out MORE does in FACT have ON HIS OWN WEBSITE an article where he sings his own praises for the explosive demolition job he did where he hardly broke ONE WINDOW of buildings EVEN CLOSER than those left standing near Ground Zero.

    Now, if you want to be honest and AT LEAST admit that is a little ODD, fine…

    but if you just keep trying to obfuscate the issues, it would appear you are not here to discuss, you are here to sell your point of view.

    Fact is, NIST claimed 2 reasons that they didn’t tHINK it was controlled demolition, both came from the contractor who we have previously mentioned, and BOTH are absolutely bunk…

    they should have tested for explosive residue… they didn’t as of yet…

    till then, the investigation is incomplete.

  25. and do me a favor… I am not a “twoofer”… I am an advocate for a renewed investigation into the worst criminal act this nation has ever seen. I have studied the events of that day, the events leading up to that day, the structure of the buildings involved, the processes of controlled demolition, as well as the geo-political climate before and after 9/11. I am not a “twoofer”. Childish name-calling doesn’t help your case or your credibility around here… perhaps at RedState or ThinkProgress (different sides, same coin)… but not here.

  26. No, you’re a libeler of innocent people and an apologist for the Islamic nuts who perpetrated the 9/11 atrocity, as well as the Cole attack and the 1998 US embassy bombings in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi. You’re also a hypocrite who just called Mark Roberts an “idiot,” but can’t refute a single thing he says.

    • “No, you’re a libeler of innocent people…”

      Everything I have said about the owner of CDI is absolutely true, that is NOT libel. And if there were to be a real investigation into the criminal aspect of this case, CDI would have to be considered a suspect. That is obvious, if you are capable of looking past your ‘you’re with us or the terrorists” cliched propaganda mindset…

      “… an apologist for the Islamic nuts who perpetrated the 9/11 atrocity…”

      right. Explain to me how the “Islamic nuts” were able to keep NORAD from intercepting any of the 4 flights that day, nearly 2 hours after the first hijacking was reported… explain to me how “Islamic Nuts” convinced Building 7 to collapse in 6.7 seconds, as NIST admits, for the first time in history that kind of thing happened due to “thermal expansion”… explain to me how the “Islamic Nuts” got Rumsfeld to announce 2.3 trillion dollars missing from the Pentagon budget on Sept. 10th 2001, then they specifically targeted the VERY SAME OFFICE all the accountants were working in who were going over the records to find that money… explain to me how the Islamic Nuts wrote in 2000 that they needed a “Pearl Harbor Type Event” in order to spark their neoliberal global initiative, oh wait a minute… that was Cheney… explain to me how the last video tape of bin Laden that both the CIA and the FBI confirmed as genuine, happens to say that he DID NOT attack us on 9/11…

      You need to figure out what is going on in this world, albury. It ain’t just black and white and us verses them. You need to understand that for some things, people can and will do horrible things. They look at it simply as collateral damage serving “the greater good”

      It isn’t the first time False Flag events have been staged by leaders against their own people. Read the plans for Operation Northwoods… read about what really happened to the USS Liberty… these are all facts, that can easily be confirmed… facts that now are simply relegated to the history files, but back then, when people like me talked about them, people like you berated us, condemned us, and insisted we were just “conspiracy theorists”

      The events of 911 have served one side, one group, and that was not the Taliban or even al Qaeda…

      and in case you haven’t noticed, I am not a supporter of Jones’ work nor the “nano-thermite” crap either. So at least we can agree on that.

  27. Quit making stuff up. NORAD did not have time to intercept the first three airliners, and the fourth was stopped by the passengers. They had 17 minutes from the time ATC notified them that AA 77 was off course, and practically no time at all for the first two. Did you expect them to go up and blast hijacked planes with civilian passengers out of the sky the way they always have in the past?
    The hit on the Pentagon was random, and with AA 77 coming from the west, which wall did you think it would hit? There is NO evidence at all that the attack had any effect on DoD accounting; it’s a twoofer legend.
    You’re also totally misrepresenting the statement in PNAC’s “Rebuilding America’s Defenses,” which did not advocate a “New Pearl Harbor,” and if you’d bother to read what it did advocate, you’d realize that our going to war in Iraq and Afghanistan has drained huge quantities of defense money away from their proposals.
    Mark Loizeaux is also not a “suspect,” he’s a demolition contractor, as are thousands of others who think your demolition “theory” is ludicrous.
    And feel free to tell me how many innocent Americans Northwoods killed, or what the “real” motive was for the Liberty attack.

    • “There is NO evidence at all that the attack had any effect on DoD accounting; it’s a twoofer legend.”

      funny how you pathetic trolls extoll the patriotic rhetoric when the need suits you, then you completely dismiss the obvious suffering and facts as a “twoofer legend” just to continue your ridicuous claims. You are a troll. And we are done with this conversation, since you decided to use the term “twoofer” again like I asked you politely not to. But while you sit there stewing in your PR firm juices, read these names of the victims who died on Sept 11th 2001 in the Pentagon, you think about the “legend” we “twoofers” made up, and then go fuck yourself.

      Only one thing is worse than a Secretary of Defense who would target his own people in his own Pentagon, and that is a PR shill running around trying to pretend that history didn’t happen. Fuck off troll, you’re banned.

      These people died while looking for the 2.3 trillion dollars that Rumsfeld announced was “missing”… that’s NOT a “twoofer legend” you PR asswipe…

      Budget analysis

      1. Carrie Blagburn, 48, Temple Hills, Maryland, civilian budget analyst, U.S. Army.

      2. Angelene C. Carter, 51, Forrestville, Maryland, accountant, U.S. Army.

      3. Carolyn B. Halmon, 49, Washington, D.C., budget analyst, U.S. Army.

      4. Jimmie Ira Holley, 54, Lanham, Maryland, accountant.

      5. Peggie Hurt, 36, Crewe, Virginia, accountant, U.S. Army.

      6. Brenda Kegler, 49, Washington, D.C., budget analyst, U.S. Army.

      7. David W. Laychak, 40, Manassas, Virginia, civilian budget analyst, U.S. Army.

      8. Samantha Lightbourn-Allen, 36, Hillside, Maryland, budget analyst, U.S. Army.

      9. Shelley A. Marshall, 37, Marbury, Maryland, budget analyst, Defense Intelligence Agency.

      10. Patricia E. (Patti) Mickley, 41, Springfield, Virginia, financial manager, Defense Department.

      11. Odessa V. Morris, 54, Upper Marlboro, Maryland, budget analyst, U.S. Army.

      12. Martha Reszke, 36, Stafford, Virginia, budget analyst, U.S. Army.

      13. Cecelia E. Richard, 41, Fort Washington, Maryland, accounting technician, U.S. Army.

      14. Robert E. Russell, 52, Oxon Hill, Maryland, civilian budgetary supervisor, U.S. Army.

      15. Marjorie C. Salamone, 53, Springfield, Virginia, budget program analyst, U.S. Army.

      16. Antoinette Sherman, 35, Forest Heights, Maryland, budget analyst, U.S. Army.

      17. Edna L. Stephens, 53, Washington, D.C., budget analyst, U.S. Army.

      “Civilian employee”

      1. (Retired) Master Sgt. Max Beilke, 69, Laurel, Maryland, civilian employee, U.S. Army.

      2. *Sharon Carver, 38, Waldorf, Maryland, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      an accountant for the Army

      3. John J. Chada, 55, Manassas, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      administrative assistant for the Department of Defense Information Management Support Center

      4. *Ada Davis, 57, Camp Springs, Maryland, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      an Army accountant

      5. Amelia V. Fields, 36, Dumfries, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.

      6. *Cortz Ghee, 54, Reisterstown, Maryland, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      a budget analyst for the Department of the Army

      7. *Brenda C. Gibson, 59, Falls Church, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      worked in budgeting and accounting for the Army

      8. Ron Golinski, 60, Columbia, Maryland, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff for Personnel

      9. Diane M. Hale-McKinzy, 38, Alexandria, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.

      10. Sheila Hein, 51, University Park, Maryland, civilian employee, U.S. Army.

      11. *Angela Houtz, 27, La Plata, Maryland, civilian employee, U.S. Navy.
      Senior Analyst at the Pentagon

      12. Judith Jones, 53, Woodbridge, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Navy.

      13. James Lynch, 55, Manassas, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Navy.

      14. Teresa Martin, 45, Stafford, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.

      15. *Ada L. Mason, 50, Springfield, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      served as a budget analyst for the U.S. Army

      16. *Robert J. Maxwell, 53, Manassas, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      he served as a civilian budget analyst for the Army

      17. *Molly McKenzie, 38, Dale City, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      a civilian budget analyst for the Army

      18. Ted Moy, 48, Silver Spring, Maryland, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      program manager in information management support for the Army

      19. *Diana B. Padro, 55, Woodbridge, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      a staff accountant for the Office of the Secretary of the Army

      20. *(Retired) Capt. Jack Punches, 51, Clifton, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Navy.
      Deputy Head, Navy Interagency Support Branch in the Pentagon.

      21. Deborah Ramsaur, 45, Annandale, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      Office of the secretary for the Army

      22. *Rhonda Rasmussen, 44, Woodbridge, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      a budget analyst, Office of Budget Analysis

      23. *Edward V. Rowenhorst, 32, Lake Ridge, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      a civilian accountant for the Army.

      24. Judy Rowlett, 44, Woodbridge, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.

      25. **Charles E. Sabin, 54, Burke, Virginia, civilian employee, Defense Department.
      began his federal service career as an accountant with the Army Audit Agency
      As a key DIA senior manager, his incisive analysis and outstanding leadership led DIA’s financial policy and accounting office through the major organizational and systemic changes of the 1980s and 1990s…

      26. *Janice Scott, 46, Springfield, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      46-year-old Army budget analyst

      27. **Marian Serva, 47, Stafford, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.
      Office of congressional affairs contact officer for the Army office moved to that side of the building 2 months prior to 911.

      28. Don Simmons, 58, Dumfries, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.

      29. (Retired) Lt. Col. Gary F. Smith, 55, Alexandria, Virginia, civilian employee, U.S. Army.

      30. Patricia J. Statz, 41, Takoma Park, Maryland, civilian employee, U.S. Army.

  28. Interesting read, even the reponse and reply section at the bottom of the page. However I do not see the point in all of this. All this effort towards some conspiracy theory about the goverment involvement in 9/11 is crazy. But since you have the time, I have a few questions. First, if the molten metal seen pouring out of the tower is thermite, why is it burning before the supposed explosions that trigger them? Wouldn’t this thermite reaction just head downward to the next floor instead of out a window? And why does it take so long to start after the planes crash into the towers? Shouldn’t it begin as soon as the huge fireball from the planes exploding within the buildings? Again, I don’t know anything about this stuff, just stumbled here off of a image search and found it interesting.

    • Durandal;

      “All this effort towards some conspiracy theory about the goverment involvement in 9/11 is crazy.”

      I’m not saying it’s “the government”, Durandal… I’m saying it’s a relatively small group of people in key positions working for the government, who saw an opportunity to create a climate of mass fear and hysteria that they could use to refashion the United States of America into a type of system that they could profit from. Why is it “crazy”? It’s been done before… The Gulf of Tonkin incident was a false flag operation, Johnson’s Secretary of Defense McNamera, has practically said as much when he called it a “mistake”. Operation Northwoods was a plan to take out one of our own jet liners with students on board and blame it on the Cubans to create a war with them, Kennedy nixed that idea after it had proceeded through the Chiefs of Staff level… the USS Liberty was sent off into a war zone off the coast of Egypt and then attacked by a “friendly” nation, all with the intention to sink her and then that would draw the U.S. into that war… The Lusitania was sank after being sent into German controlled waters with 1,200 people on board in order to get us involved in WW I…

      It’s not “crazy” Durandal. The fact that so many 9/11 Commissioners have stated that they were lied to and the fact that many of them have said the Report is flawed and incomplete should say a lot to the people of this nation. The fact that the NIST report didn’t even mention Building 7 in their first report nor did they even attempt to explain how the collapses happened, after the initial collapse sequence began should also say a lot to the people of this nation. We have been lied to, not just about Iraq and Afghanistan (and now Pakistan) but about the information the Bush administration had prior to the attacks as well… all this you know… you know it already. Most Americans do. But most Americans can’t bring themselves to even consider that certain people would kill American civilians in order to remake this country. But the people I am telling you did do it, not “the government”, but a small group working within the government, also tortured people – tortured children – tortured to gain fabricated justifications for an illegal war of aggression – they killed about a million people in that war of aggression – they wrote and forced through congress the Patriot Act, the most undemocratic bills this nation has ever seen – they passed the Military Commissions Act, ending posse commitatus – they planned on the second week they were in office how to divide up Iraq’s oil reserves – they created lies in the form of the “Niger Yellow Cake” document, the graphics of the “mobile chemical weapons labs” and the “al Qaeda mountain headquarters” in order to better lie to not only the American People, but also to the U.N. Security council. We know all of this stuff to be true…

      but the only thing that people can’t accept is that they would have had the gall to attack Americans to make it all possible.

      It isn’t crazy, Durandal… with all that and the literally 100s of other pieces of evidence, the reality is, holding onto the belief that some angry Muslims with box-cutters could fly a plane into the Pentagon 45 minutes after another one hit the North Tower is crazy. The Pentagon is the most well guarded building on the planet… is now and was then. That “plane” flew straight at the Pentagon, flew a nearly complete circle over it, and dove down into it, and the alarm was never even sounded inside the Pentagon, even though according to Minnetta, they had been tracking it’s approach for quite sometime.

      These are the facts, Durandal. We need a new investigation. I am glad you took the time to ask questions. I will try my best to answer them.

      1. “First, if the molten metal seen pouring out of the tower is thermite, why is it burning before the supposed explosions that trigger them?” I never said it was “thermite”… I don’t know what it is, and for anyone to claim they do know what it is specifically, based solely on that visual evidence, is presumptuous at least, and deliberately misleading at worse.

      But let me address the nature of your question… why would the charges burn prior to the demolition? – simple, they are triggered by an ignition, either electric or from another charge like det cord or shock cord. The plane crash itself generated massive heat for a brief time (NIST estimated the fuel was burned off completely in the first 5 minutes I think) as the jet fuel burned off (somewhere over 1,400 deg Far. if I am not mistaken)… That burning fuel could easily have triggered the charges (whatever they were) to burn prematurely. Ok? But I don’t think it was “thermite”….

      2. “Wouldn’t this thermite reaction just head downward to the next floor instead of out a window?”

      Again, I don’t believe it was “thermite”… but to answer your question… thermite creates a hot molten metal, like the slag created when you burn through metal with a torch. Though it can, slowly, burn through other metal as it moves along, melting that metal as well, it isn’t like an acid or something… it won’t burn through 4” of hardened concrete… it would probably just run along on the floor looking for the path of least resistance till it found a way out of the building… if that is what happened… I don’t thing that is what happened, but it is possible…. so no, it would not just burn through the floors like the stuff did in Alien (I love that movie)… though the slag could melt through the steel floor pans, it couldn’t melt through the concrete floors.

      3. “And why does it take so long to start after the planes crash into the towers?”

      I don’t know.

      4. “Shouldn’t it begin as soon as the huge fireball from the planes exploding within the buildings?”

      Depends on your assumption that the fire-ball spread perfectly evenly through the entire floor. Could the fire have moved unevenly through the floors, thus affecting different areas at different intervals after the crash? There is a recording of a fireman talking about that specific floor I think and he says that there are “2 localized fires” on that floor and he thought they could be knocked down with just two lines. So we know from eyewitness testimony (prior to his death from the collapse that NIST didn’t really address) that the floors weren’t some towering inferno type situation. We know they were localized fires in areas of the office. How they moved and when they moved, I don’t know, but that might answer your question.

      I am very glad you took the time to leave that comment. Please ask anything you wish in the future, and by all means, don’t take my word for it. Avoid the “crazies” out there. Many of them are there just to confuse and obfuscate. Richard Gage is a great source of information about the technical aspects of the collapse of the buildings including Building 7.

      David Ray Griffin is also someone you might want to look into.

      Steven Jones himself recently commented that it is in all likely hood the “thermite”.”nanothermite” was only used as an electric match to detonate the high explosives that brought down the towers, and with that, I completely agree.

      But there is so much other evidence of a controlled demolition without looking at “thermite” and “thermate” or nanothermite, you could spend years researching it (as I unfortunately have).

      Anyway, I thank you for your comment. Any questions are more than welcome here (I even leave up the “why don’t you go f* yourself?” questions 🙂 ) .

  29. Durandal95 needs to understand that he’s a troll and an idiot who’ll be banned if he doesn’t drink some of your Kool-Aid pretty soon, doesn’t he, Scott? Why don’t you explain to him that ~220 acres of ceilings in the towers were all secretly removed when no one was looking, fireproof and silent PETN was applied to each truss after the Blaze-Shield SFRM was all scraped off and disposed of, fireproof det cord was strung back to the secret hideout of the evil-doers, the ceilings were replaced, and then the trusses were all blown to hell on 9/11, leaving the rest of the building to collapse and be found in the debris?
    Btw, the trusses were doubled, dumbass, so your count from the framing plan should have allowed for it.

  30. Here’s a question for you, Scott. Why won’t you allow my comments to be seen by anyone else who might visit here? If you have all the answers, what are you afraid of? Your theory is pure nonsense, and I’ve given you a number of irrefutable reasons for it. Is that the problem?
    Someone who calls people “idiots,” “trolls,” and “asswipes” can certainly weather a common term used to describe members of your “truth movement,” so that was just a pretext. Rational discussion of this issue is really a problem for you, isn’t it?

  31. Hi Scott. Good Read. I like that you qualify your statements unlike others that want to merely disagree.

    This has all the makings of a MythBusters episode. They could build an exact replica of one tower, in the desert, remotely fly a plane into it, and see what happens. There could be proponents from both sides there to document the event.

    Anyway, the more I read on the subject (from different sources) the more questions I have. Given all the information available, it’s impossible to take the “offical” story at face value.

    • TC:

      Thank you. That would be a great idea, to have the Mythbusters run a test like that, but it would be even simpler than that.

      I call it the Phoenix Initiative for obvious reasons, and the first test would be to see if det cord could in fact pulverize the concrete while vaporizing the trusses and floor pans. Not too expensive, a big bang (several of them) and extremely socially relevant to what is going on these days.

      If you want to send it to them, be my guest, but I want to be there when the thing goes bang-O…

  32. Hello again,

    Sorry, I didn’t mean to come out swinging on my previous post. I was up way too late in the morning to make sense of my own post. I did not mean to insult either, so if I did I’m sorry.

    OK, as far as my thermite rant, which actually came from another site, but ended up on yours, thank you for the answers.

    As far as the steel trusses, again I’m no expert, but wouldn’t they be barried at the bottom of the pile. I believe there were 6 or 7 stories below ground of empty or near empty car parking for the bulk of the debris to fall into.

    With tons of concrete being crushed and expelled out of the tower forming that huge cloud of dust that covers city blocks. Metal would just be smashed flat like an aluminum can under your foot.

    • Durandal;

      I didn’t take your comment as an insult at all. I am glad to answer whatever questions I can. If I don’t know the answer, I will simply say so.

      If we all saw huge clouds of pulverized concrete dust billowing down the streets, then it couldn’t have also been covering the trusses, right? I mean there was some concrete still in the pile, but much of it, as we all saw, blew across lower Manhattan. So if you take out the concrete floors, what are you left with? Corrugated metal floor pans and trusses. So where are they? You can clearly see the exterior columns in mass amounts, and you can clearly see columns from the massive core structure of the building… and then you see dust that covered the rest of the downtown area… but what you don’t see is the floor pans and the trusses.

      Take that into consideration, and then add in the fact that the RJ Lee report, the FEMA report, and the NIST report ALL mentioned these “strange’ metal droplets they found in the dust from Ground Zero. Tons of them.

      Also take into consideration the size of the particles of the victims they found blown onto roofs 500 feet away. Explosives do that, Durandal, not a building collapse.

      Go back and look at the video again. Ask yourself… is that really something “falling down”?

  33. Damn i didnt see any of this post or the comments before now how the hell did i miss this willy … sorry i wasnt here to help out

  34. how is it that there are comments from the eighth when it was posted yesterday

  35. I was here on the eighth i would have taken that troll off ur hands if i had known

  36. Now that ive had time to read all of this i have to say i think youre on the right track here willy

    • Thanks JD. I’m glad you had a chance to read it. I am getting it ready to send to a demolition expert along with my theory about PETN det cord… see if an expert agrees that it is possible to have demolished the floors and trusses with det cord. When I hear back, I will let you guys know… one way or the other.

  37. Id also like to say that i like how u handled albury there i wish i was half as good as u at debunker busting

  38. And i like how u handled Yourself here

  39. i wish i was half as good as u at debunker busting

  40. thats great willy by all means let me know what happens With that

  41. Hi Scott
    Could this be one of the corrugated steel plates?

    Have you find any?

    Could the steel plates have been used together with some high power energy source to make the concrete come to an instant explosion?

  42. good find.

    I see two small pieces of the corrugated steel floor pan in that picture. It’s the first shot I have seen of them.

  43. Hello Scott

    Now I have found more steel pans. All together about 20. I have been looking at all of Kurt Sonnenfelds pictures.

    I have also find something else. It is about the fire proofing on the perimeter columns. It should be something left of it. But ALL is gone.
    That could not happen just because they fell down to the ground.
    It must be a proof for explosion. What do you think about it?


  44. 20? Well, that’s a start. I saw some of Sonnenfelds pictures. There are very interesting.

    I agree that the fire proofing being missing from the steel columns certainly points to a very ppowerful force knocking it all off.

  45. Hi Scott

    Here you have a lot of data about the floors in the office part.
    Specially – perhaps – concerning the reinforcement.

    choose: NIST NCSTAR 1-6B: Fire Resistance Tests of the Floor Truss Systems


  46. thanks Johan. I will check it out.

  47. I think that’s important to remember that the pile of ruble was not just on the ground, its piled up and piled high too. There is a lot that you wouldn’t see, figuring that it is likely made of of the outer structure of the walls. AKA burying the floor pieces. Saying that explosives turned all the trusses into dust makes it’s own problem: equal and opposite reaction. You can’t do it one way. That amount of explosives would burst outwards on every floor as well as make a light show visible from the other side of Manhattan. Watch open pit mining if you don’t think that a hidden explosive charge would make a flash. And as far as fireproofing goes, concrete is harder to powderize than spray on insulation, not much would survive the floor to floor damage.
    And let’s not mention the logistics of planting and calculating those explosives to do exactly that, with people working there and all. Or the ability of not leaking that much information. Of all the people that know how to do that, AND have the access to the equipment AND the building makes your manpower requirement HUGE and your personnel options small, meaning a small collection of power grabbers in Washington that can’t even run a budget could organize and fund a project like this without the lid being blown off. Remember that classified information generally is stuff like the max velocity of a nuclear sub and it’s torpedoes; 30m/h? 50m/h? Classified. Super secret governmetn projects that use tons of manpower and resources are ideas from a cliche science fiction movie.
    And the pancake floor collapse is very possible, the floors can collapse independent of the out side, meaning that the 10 seconds that everything collapsed in would only be the structural skeleton of the building. The floors above the impact zone could have been collapsing long before that. Then it’s just a matter of the accumulated mass falling, and that 100,000 tons smashes stuff real fast.
    NORAD, also has little to do with planes. NORAD is a mutual assured destruction (MAD) tool so if the USSR launches ICBM’s we can launch ours before theirs get here. That’s it. as far as not being able to intercept the planes, the phrase “below the radar” comes to mind ’cause guess what, radar doesn’t pick up everything and has a minimum effective altitude. It was impossible to track the planes let alone launch a fighter to intercept them.

    BTW the Lusitania was en route US to Europe. It sank in traditionally non-German waters and was a civilian craft, though carrying munitions, who’s secondary explosions caused the boat to sink. The one torpedo fired was not originally enough to sink it. It was not intentional.

  48. Let’s just face a few simple facts.

    Skyscrapers MUST hold themselves up. They must also sway in the wind. The people who design skyscrapers MUST figure out how much steel and how much concrete they are going to put on every level before they even dig the hole for the foundation.

    After EIGHT YEARS why don’t we have a table specifying the TONS of STEEL and TONS of CONCRETE that were on every level of WTCs 1&2? The NIST report does not even specify the TOTAL for the concrete. The total for the steel is in three places. So even if the planes did it that 10,000 page report is CRAP!

    Conspiracies are irrelevant. The Truth Movement should be marching on all of the engineering schools in the country.

    Watch that Purdue simulation. If a 150 ton airliner crashes near the top of a skyscraper at 440 mph isn’t the building going to sway? Didn’t the survivors report the building “moving like a wave”? So why do the core columns in the Purdue video remain perfectly still as the plane comes in?

    That is the trouble with computer simulations. If they are good, they are very good. But if they have a defect either accidental or deliberate they can be REALLY STUPID once you figure out the flaws.

    The distributions of steel and concrete are going to affect the sway of a skyscraper whether it is from the wind or an airliner.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    How much does one complete floor assembly weigh?

    You know those square donut floor slabs? They were 205 ft square with a rectangular hole for the core. There was a steel rebar mesh embedded in the concrete which was poured onto corrugated steel pans which were supported by 35 and 60 foot trusses. There has been talk about those things pancaking on each other for years.

    But has anyone ever said what the whole thing weighed? Why haven’t we seen that A LOT in EIGHT YEARS? The concrete alone is easy to compute, about 601 tons. But the concrete could not be separated from the entire assembly, the upper knuckles of the trusses were embedded into the concrete. So what did the whole thing weigh and why haven’t the EXPERTS been mentioning that A LOT in EIGHT YEARS?

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    So why hasn’t Richard Gage and his buddies produced a table with the TONS of STEEL and TONS of CONCRETE that were on every level of the WTC? How much computing power do they have now, compared to the early 1960s when the buildings were designed? I asked Gage about that in May of 2008 at Chicago Circle Campus and he got a surprised look on his face and gave me this LAME excuse about the NIST not releasing accurate blueprints. Gravity hasn’t changed since the 1960s. They should be able to come up with some reasonable numbers.

  49. […] 2) miten kaikki kaksoistornien 20 000 lattiakehikkoa näyttävät kadonneen […]

  50. Thanks for all your work.

  51. […] levisi kaduille. Ehjää betonia ei rakennuksista muuten jäänyt, ei myöskään yhtään lattiaa. Iskujen suunnittelijaksi päätettiin panna Osama bin Laden, ja hänen päätettiin majailevan […]

  52. […] levisi kaduille. Ehjää betonia ei rakennuksista muuten jäänyt, ei myöskään yhtään lattiaa. Iskujen suunnittelijaksi päätettiin panna Osama bin Laden, ja hänen päätettiin majailevan […]


    Your a fucking idiot, what, that there were no trussing? That detention cord isn’t found? That the no explosive sounds were heard, that not one person found a thermite burn on one piece of steel? That not one person who put this plan into effect would have come out, when obamas senate seat scandal couldn’t even been kept secret, go back to bed you fucking nitwit.
    -where is one quote from someone seeing thermite burns, det cord, or heard an explosion
    -give me one person who actually know what they are talking about and sides with you.
    No one, your a loser and your an idiot, when your mom calls you out of your basement for dinner, say hi for me….

    • Many people heard explosions. Here’s a few quotes:

      “[T]here was just an explosion [in the south tower]. It seemed like on
      television [when] they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going
      all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.”
      –Firefighter Richard Banaciski

      “I saw a flash flash flash [at] the lower level of the building. You know
      like when they demolish a building?”
      –Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory

      “[I]t was [like a] professional demolition where they set the charges on
      certain floors and then you hear ‘Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop’.”
      –Paramedic Daniel Rivera

  54. This is a nice article but sadly has sent everyone on a wild goose chase. The simpler, and factually correct, explanation for the lack of trusses and debris can be found here:

    9/11 SOLVED: Introducing the No Floors Theory

  55. Came across this old and interesting post while googling sth else. Since it stirred my curiosity, and since I want to focus attention on the floor trusses soon anyway, I created a quick spreadsheet, filled it with dimensions of the truss components, and estimated the mass of the main PART (the long part that has the web rods; ignoring the ends, which are a few feet on either end) of the main trusses (ignoring the bridging trusses): about 5600 tons of steel per tower (again: I have ignored a part of the truss assembly for now; add perhaps 10 or 15% for that).

    Now is the claim that much, or all, of that steel was actually MELTED??
    The heat of fusion for iron is 247 J/g – that’s the energy needed to turn iron that’s already heated to the melting point from solid to liquid. Multiply this with the 5630 tons, and you get 1.4 million MJ of energy needed to liquify already heated steel. That is equivalent to 333 tons of TNT! And I haven’t even included the energy needed to heat the steel from ambient temperature to its melting point – that should be in the same order of magnitude.

    Why would anyone even contemplate attacking all trusses in their entirety, when all it takes is to cut each truss in 2, perhaps even 1 place – the top and bottom chord, or only the bottom chord, which is merely 1/4″ thick, 2″x3″ wide. I am not an explosives expert, but reasonably certain that 1 ounce of regular high explosive would do. For close to 19,000 main trusses per tower that’s 38,000 or 19,000 ounces – that’s a ton or even just half a ton. Multiply that accordingly if you think I underestimate charge size.

    • I believe the reduction of the trusses to micro spheres of various metals was a mistake. It’s certainly a dead giveaway that something other than a gravity induced collapse occurred and I don’t think they wanted that. I think what happened was, they wanted to break up the floors so they were easier to control during the demolition and easier to clean up during the removal process. But they used too much in the confined spaces of the floor systems and as the demo took place and the floors and debris above pushed the mass of the systems downward, the heat released from the explosions of the PETN detcord built up. I just think they used too much of the det cord and as a result, melted not only the trusses, but also metal door knobs, filing cabinets and even the guns and badges of officers who were caught in the demo as it took place. It was even hot enough to melt the concrete, which as you know, takes a lot more heat that even the trusses.

      • Have you written about how the core columns might have been demo’d? I read your work on the truss/floor pans. It’s great.

        I ask because it seems like an important part of the demo process. Like you say above, the floors/trusses were probably attacked first, and then the columns. But I wonder if the “columns” includes the core, or if that was a separate process.

        A debunker on reddit by the name “Pvt Hudson” writes:

        “Large portions of the cores of both buildings were still standing after the floors had completely collapsed around them.”

        Link to comment:

        It seems your theory can explain why the cores were standing after the floors collapsed (if his claim is true), given the order of the demo process.

        Great work and regards,


        • To answer your question, yes I have. I’ve written a great deal on the core structure of the Twin Towers and how they were probably demoed. The debunker over at Reddit is full of shit. If you look at the photos from Ground Zero just after the demolition, there is not “large portions” of the cores of the buildings still standing while the floors had collapsed. That’s ridiculous. Just look at the Ground Zero photos.

          Where is the core in this photo?

          How about this one?

          How about here?

          My theory does not explain why the core remained when the rest was demoed, because it didn’t. My theory shows how they 1. reduced the floorplans and truss systems to dust in order to get them out of the way of the demo and 2. how they demoed the core structure itself.

          I guess you need to take a look at a few other articles of mine to understand that.

          But no… there was CLEARLY no core structure left standing after the demo. In fact, the “potato chip” of the outer shell was the ONLY thing left standing while the core was blown into pieces and the floors were pulverized into dust.

          thanks. please feel free to copy this comment and leave it for your debunker over at Reddit (owned by Conde Nast, now right?)

          • I know the core was demolished. I just repeated his claim for your rebuttal.

            But the debunker seems to think the cores needed demolition first in order for the floor systems to fail. Because, in the sentence after, he writes:

            “How does that support the “collapse from columns cut via controlled demolition” explanation?”

            He ignores how the floor systems were part of the demo process — they did not simply “collapse” as he deceptively states, like a ring falling down a pole, but rather EXPLODED — some ejecta was propelled upwards!!

            The cores were an integral part of the demo process, but not the only part. I believe you have the demo order reversed, (floor systems first, then the core) and operating nearly in sync.

            Thanks for replying. I’ll re-post it so he can see.

            Best wishes,


            • In order for the massive columns to be laterally ejected, the floors have to be out of the way, right? Besides, the floors being demoed would have little to no effect on the core system but if the core was removed first, what holds the floors in place? And if they move, that disturbs the demolition material (i.e. the det cord, radio receivers, primers, etc.) so that can’t happen. No, the floors had to be demoed tenths of a second prior to the core of the structure that held them in place. That’s my theory anyway.

  56. The premise is incorrect, the floors never existed, the buildings were always hollow apart from a few floors.

  57. the truth is right here for those who cam handle it

    • would you stop that shit? I was approached by the guy who started this ridiculous line of distraction years ago. I’ll tell you the same thing I told him… Just stop.

      • I found the truth in my own independent research. Dozens (and probably thousands more) photos and other evidence confirm the buildings were almost entirely hollow from their construction onwards. It is proven conclusively and explains the free fall demolition and all verifiable evidence in all respects. Why would you want to shut down a line of discussion that could be the actual truth?

        • because it’s not the “actual truth” and there were hundreds of thousands of tons of concrete dust spread all across lower Manhattan that proves those 220 floors (110 per tower) were still there.

          aside from the fact that I lived in Manhattan for 7 years prior to 9/11 (93 to 99) and visited the Twin Towers on several occasions (friend worked there and visit with my father) and the theory that they made a “shell” of a building is just plain ridiculous…

          hows that for reasons.

          now just stop it.

      • One World Trade Center is also hollow and covered in fake office lighting. Go have a look.

        • are you the same Aaron Dover who belongs to a thing called Jews for Palestine (or something like that) in Britain? And aren’t you the same Aaron Dover who was detained for 10 days and for a mental health evaluation?

          If all that is true, then you are also the same Aaron Dover who admits to being a “former” hedge fund manager, right?

          “A former hedge fund boss is considering legal action after being “wrongly sectioned” in a maximum-security psychiatric ward.” source

          Let’s see now… a Jewish hedge-funder, working on behalf of Big Banking and vulture capitalists, comes over here with some hair-brained distraction bullshit about the Twin Towers being hollow to see if he can get anyone to bite on it and otherwise making the site look ridiculous.

          Oh wait a minute… you are a “tv fakery” supporter as well.

          “There were no real planes involved, they were just added to live and subsequent footage using video compositing. This became the “no planes theory” which can be believed with/without the “no floors theory” Aaron Dover

          That about sum it up?

          See ya.

          • LOL……..that man is so funny….. no floors !! Guess all those people worked on their ‘imagination’…. …
            can’t believe he said that….. must be very stupid…..

            • Even funnier is that he’s repeating the same line some other guy did five years ago. Likely the same guy. I mean it’s such an obscure and silly theory.

  58. Did any of you fools dig through the remains of the World Trade Center???

    • RJ Lee Group did for an insurance issue on behalf of Deutsche Bank and they concluded it was a “combustion event” and several officials on the site concluded they saw a very low number of these trusses which they found “odd” but aside from them… no… I personally did not. Nor did I travel around the world to prove that it is indeed round, but you know what? Experts have made that conclusion and I reviewed their evidence and came to that conclusion myself. So you know, my basis for coming to this conclusion is not without precedent.. at least it isn’t for me. Plus, you can look at the photos yourself and see if you see any. Studying photographic evidence is an admissible practice in both law enforcement and adjudication of law… so I feel pretty confident about that as well. But thanks for the question.

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