Dr. Bruce Ivins, Ms. Jean Duley, and the FBI’s “Court Document”

by Scott Creighton

“This is rumor control! Here are the facts…”


It is not surprising that the government’s official story about the second worst terrorist attack on U.S. soil should have nearly as many holes in it and unanswered questions, as it’s prequel; 9/11. And it is ALL based on one court document witness statement, that originated… with the FBI.

But as hastily as the “official spokespersons” and the MSM are rushing to hang this heinous crime around the neck of Dr. Bruce Ivins, people like Glenn Greenwald, Rachel Maddow, and Atrios are trying to kick open the shutters to shed a little light on the matter. Let’s see if we can help them out, shall we?

(photo copies of the official “court documents” after the break)

After yesterday’s fiasco, late last night, I checked the New York Times site again, and they had just put up another articleabout Dr. Ivins. This is an outstanding article that I highly recommend (just don’t leave the site before you finish reading it or they will force you to register with the NYT to look at it again). This is an even-handed piece that explores some serious questions about the government case against Ivins. But I will get back to this one later.

Then, this morning, I checked to see it, and another article was up on the front page dealing with Dr. Ivins and anthrax; this one, isn’t even close to being neutral journalism.

The article is called “Anthrax Suspect’s Death Is Dark End for a Family Man” and it is by SARAH ABRUZZESE (sic) and Eric Lipton. Let me give you an idea of what not being close to neutral journalism means.

The short article starts off by saying that Dr. Ivins arrived at “a group counseling session” last month (July). “A” session, meaning one. (So right off the bat, the article is insinuating he is in need of physiological help.) In the same paragraph they say, quoting NO SOURCE FOR THIS STATEMENT,  that Dr. Ivins stated “...he had bought a bulletproof vest and a gun as he contemplated killing his co-workers at the nearby Army research laboratory.” This is “hearsay” testimony with absolutely ZERO reference as to it’s origin. That’s pretty amazing that the New York Times editorial staff let this through.

So right away, in this article, we have a picture of a psychotic Dr. Ivins wielding a weapon and wearing a vest, hunting down his office mates, cubicle by cubicle; all based on… nothing. Absolutely, nothing. And this is on the front page of the New York Times website.

But it goes on from there, and gets even worse. These are the next passages in NYT story:

He was going to go out in a blaze of glory, that he was going to take everybody out with him,”said a social worker in a transcript of a hearing at which she sought a restraining order against Dr. Ivins after his threats.

The ranting represented the final stages of psychological declineby Dr. Ivins that ended when he took his life this week, as it became clear that he was a suspect in the 2001 anthrax attacks.”

It would seem to be all there. All we need to know about this guy; when the pressures on, he becomes a mass murderer. See that? How neatly it all wraps up. But the only problem is, that this guy worked for 18 years with one of the highest security clearances in the department of defense. How did all those educated and degreed psychologists and psychiatrists miss this criminal intent, that a “social worker” picked up on in ONE group session? How come this guy only went off ONCE and attacked the nation with anthrax? Don’t mass murders and serial killers continue their acts like Theodore John Kaczynski?

But, for now, let’s let that pass and focus on the diligent researchers, Abruzzese and Lipton’s, finally revealed source: Ms. Jean Duley and her hand-written restraining order complaint, filed LATE LAST WEEK, a day or so before Dr. Ivin’s apparent suicide.

Ms. Jean Duley was/is(?)  a social worker for a company in Maryland that Dr. Ivins attended at least ONE group session with. Now, every single comment in the news headlines about Dr. Ivins being a psychopath or wanting to kill people, every single one of them, comes from what they call “court documents” from Maryland. And they ALL refer to the ONE handwritten document filed by Ms. Jean Duley, two days before Dr. Ivins reported suicide.

This is the entire case for Dr. Ivins being a homicidal maniac. AND SHE ADMITS IN THE DOCUMENT THAT THE FBI HAS ALREADY BEEN IN CONTACT WITH HER! Meaning, the FBI, the same agency that screwed up the Hatfill case so bad the government had to pay him 5.8 million tax-payer dollars less than a MONTH before all of this took place, that SAME FBI spoke to Ms. Jean Duley… and then she goes into court in the morning and files this report THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT ANYONE CAN USE TO INCRIMINATE DR. IVINS!

Don’t believe me? To conspiratorial? Read it for yourself in the actual documents she filed two days before his “suicide”. On the second page, is the mention that she has been in contact with the FBI.

So, less than a month after Hatfill was exonerated by the government and the settlement of 5.8 million bucks was announced, the FBI effectively wraps up the 6 year Anthrax Investigation, in less than a month.

Aside from the fact that Dr. Ivins had no reason to send anthrax to the people that recieved it (how does one “test his vaccine” if he hadn’t given them the vaccine?

Aside from the fact that everyone of his co-workers that has spoken out at this time about him says this makes no sense, that he wasn’t the kind of man to do it.

Aside from the fact that as many have pointed out by now, including the NYT, that Dr. Ivins was into vaccine research and couldn’t have produced the weapons grade anthrax if he wanted to.

Aside from the fact that he was a Red Cross volunteer who played piano in his church choir.

Aside from the fact that he was still employed at the research facility where “court documents” suggest he was going to kill everyone.

Aside from the fact that he won the highest civilian award that the department of defense gives out for his research and commitment to an anthrax vaccine that protects our soldier’s to this day.

Aside from the fact that this “homicidal maniac” never once used the weapons grade anthrax (that he had no access to) again after the USA Patriot Act was signed into law.

Aside from ALL of that, the New York Times runs with this story, based entirely on “court documents” from one source; Ms. Jean Duley who admittedly had already been in contact with the FBI.

But, the New York Times fails to mention that fact in their article.

This is rumor control! Those are the facts

57 Responses

  1. Well done, and thanks.

    I’ve linked to you again – I hope you don’t mind.

    This is a huge mess, clearly another coverup.


  2. Thanks Buffy. We need to keep this story out there so that they can’t put forward this frame-up, and then let it slide off into the background as ‘accepted” fact. That is what they are doing.

    Next I am putting up ABC’s part in all of this.

  3. He was clearly suicided by the government, a professional scientist such as himself has no reason to kill himself. Its obvious the anthrax scare was conducted by the government itself to prop up the terror threat. This is the kind of thing you’d only believe could happen in the movies, yet governments truly have the power to erase people and create patsies for there high crimes against humanity. Orwell feared that governments would keep truth from the people, but surely there is greater concern when truth is lost in a sea of irrelevance. The hour is later than most think.

  4. What kind of ‘bitch’ is that woman, what’s her name… Jean?
    I hope someone hangs her by her hair until she starves to death. She murdered Dr. Ivins by agreeing to take part in the scam. She is as guilty as the person that actually killed him.
    They murdered a genius…. the stupid morons.
    I don’t normally do name-calling but this is so upsetting.

  5. Next thing the Bush/Cheney Junta will do is to defrost Bin Laden’s body from that freezer he’s been kept in the last 6 + years and show the corpse to the gullible American public.

    And “Duke Nuke ‘Em” McCain will be onstage with the criminals Bush and Cheney to get a photo op for his campaign.

  6. Counselors and mental health workers are allied with Big Pharma according to a report issued recently by the president of the American Psychiatric Association. If that is true, then their opinions should not be respected. Getting someone falsely tagged as mentally ill destroys that person’s life; it is easily done in America, and there are no effective legal repercussions for the false accusers.

  7. Jean Duley is not even licensed as a social worker in Maryland!

    Link to Maryland social worker

  8. So it was the government, a Ft. Detrick employee working for the military, that mailed the anthrax and wrote those letters. That’s what the FBI is now saying. It wasn’t some psycho with the militia. And we’re supposed to believe he did it on his own???

    Most ironic that it only comes out now, just weeks before the end of the Bush junta. And now the suspect is dead, no questions asked. But what kind of interactions did that military scientist have at TOP SECRET Ft. Detrick, home of US biowar? On a typical day, he probably ran into, or talked with men involved in a variety of covert inter-relationships. In other words, all of the necessary ingredients are there: the regime’s pawn, a military base, a solely military version of the anthrax, and he even hand-wrote the letters. Let’s be honest: a competent handwriting analyst could have identified the suspect in less than one week with a 95% certainty. All the other suspects would have been exonerated, including Hatfill. Why does the FBI only name Ivins NOW, just when Bush’s idiot term is ending?

    So, as ABC news notes, Ivins waxed grandiosely at some point and had hatred in him. Sounds like a fairly typical person, in some respects, so we need to see more detail that shows why and how the FBI decided that Ivins was much worse. When someone just happens to mail anthrax to supposedly Democratic broadcasters and a journalist at a Popejoy sheet, the Inquirer’s owner in years past, the pattern isn’t consistent. Popejoy was know to be unusually conservative, not like Rather, Daschle, and such. So, we don’t see a consistent idelogical slant. Which begs the question: were both sides of the spectrum targeted to put fear into the media? The irony is that the antrhrx mailings happened shortly after 9-11 just when Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney were reportedly fishing for an excuse to attack Iraq as part of a revenge op. But Saddam had absolutely nothing to do with Al Queda, as US intelligence has affirmed. Meanwhile, Cheney continues to this day to try to paint Saddam as somehow implicated with Bin Laden in the 9-11 attacks. Why?

    In short, we see very real motives in the Bush camp for possibly staging the anthrax attacks to whip up fear and calls for war against Saddam, who was loosely labeled as suspect in the anthrax attacks. If you think back to the time of the anthrax mailings, it was obvious that Saddam Hussein wouldn’t have done an attack against liberals only, nor would he have had motive to go after a Generoso Popejoy employee (Inquirer Publications). But from the Bush perspective, to put fear into liberals and near-hysteria in people who open letters dsily, the anthrax attacks would have been a convenient way to let Bush attack Iraq without much media criticism.

    Jean Duley had a private contractor tie to Ivins? And now she’s confidential. We don’t know much about her yet, but Bush goons tend to use private connections to wrap up their dirty diapers. Maybe Ivins was coming unglued but the timing is peculiar, as noted above.

    Journalists need to be doing deep background checks on Ivins–his friendships, any covert roles, any unsual boasts or affiliations at Ft. Detrick, which is the top level of biowar secrecy classification in the whole US government. IF he was nuts, how did he get THAT job? What do his friends say? Please, dig deeper folks. Don’t accept the party line.

  9. didn’t like the “complaint”. something doesn’t seem right. Here’s link with a photo of ms. duley. my guess… won’t be there long.

  10. Willy, I can’t help thinking this may be the missing link you were refering to the other nite, a major development that may open everything up. But clearly, the MSM is playing the psyco card on IVANS BIG TIME.

  11. Jean Duley is a counselor. Counselor and social worker are generic terms. There is a difference between a counselor and a LICENSED counselor or a Licensed Clinical Social Worker. She most likely has a 4-year degree from a university and not a Masters degree. In most states I think you have to have a Masters degree and work for a period of time under someone to be eligible for licensure.

    Jan , you need to ease up on your name-calling and such. You have NO EVIDENCE that this poor woman was privy to or was complicit in any SCAM as you put it. Yes, she had contact with the FBI and maybe they did inform her that Bruce Ivins had a history of sociopathy and making homicidal threats. And who knows if that is true. But put yourself in her shoes. The FBI tells you that one of your clients is about to be charged with 5 counts of CAPITAL MURDER and he comes into your group and starts ranting that he is going to kill his co-workers, that he has bought a gun, etc. She didn’t tell him to kill himself. There is no evidence that she was trying to frame anyone for murder. She was scared to death! Listen to her testimony. I have read hundreds of orders for protection and hers sounds very real. She was scared and she wanted protection. It must have been a nightmare for her learning that her client was about to be named as the Anthrax Killer. I feel terrible for her.

  12. Scott perhaps linking onto blogs like ABC (though they were getting alot of info from the Greenwald links put up…) or especially Keith Olbermann.

    I just saw Keith’s video of his coverage of this issue, and he pretty much vested the La Times story and even repeated this woman’s “court documents” verbatum.

    Can you see if there is a blog on his site, or an email to him personally? His people maybe?

  13. Gregory’s Girl:

    Look, what I think happened is this counselor was probably scared shitless by the feds… by the FBI.

    How else would she be talking about talking about this guy’s record from back when he was in grad school? The feds told her that,and they probably told her that he was definately the anthrax killer.

    Then they probably told her to go file the order so she would start a paper trail.

    Now, did he REALLY leave that threatening phone measage, or did they? That shook her up, and she goes the next morning to file the court paper saying he is crazy.

    But that is not the point. The point is, this is “unsubstanciated” claims that the MSM is using to railroad this guy for 5 deaths and 17 illnesses.

    So, the Feds need to tell everything… and so does she.

    I found out where she worked. I will not make that public, but, I remember an article that said they contacted the place and she no longer works there.

    Why would she leave? in here mind she helped solve the big unsolved terrorist attack? She SHOULD be a hero? right?

  14. Gregory Girl…. go look up her creditials…. she holds an associate degree that required only 15 credits…. she was a competent group counseler ??… probably from an internet online degree program. After being informed by the FBI of fraudalent information about Ivins, she doesn’t panic…. she cooperates and she sees herself in the news as a person who came in contact with Ivins. She has visions of being a star! Her name will be everywhere…. maybe she’ll run for president…. she has the creditials now.
    I still stand by hanging her by her hair until she croaks.

  15. Look, I was a substance abuse counselor for years and it is a tough job. It appears she was an uncredentialed counselor. Why would she quit? Because she had just been severely traumatized. Maybe she is considering a change of profession. Having your life threatened can have an affect on your career choices! If all she has is a Bachelor’s Degree she did not make much dough there. I agree, the FBI scared her to death but so did what she already knew of him and she states that in the court tape. Trust me, if the FBI had told me that my client was homicidal and he started making threats it would be my inclination as well as my professional responsibility to go to the authorities. (It’s called duty to warn.) So this poor woman went to the authorities and Bruce Ivins was temporarily committed and he called her threatening her.She knows his voice. I am sure she knew it was him! This exact thing has happened to me and one of my clients called me at my office from his hospital bed where he was being kept for observation for 72 hours. As soon as he was released I was concerned that he would act on it. The difference is that the FBI didn’t come and tell me that he was a homicidal maniac who had been diagnosed as a sociopath by high level psychiatrists and psychologists. No one told me anything but I still filed an order of protection. She did the absolute right thing. No one made her file anything! She was afraid for her life like any sane person would be! I cannot even imagine what it was like for her knowing that she was around him and possibly had seen him alone as well as in groups. Would you want to be in her shoes and be attacked and called names and in one day have your name go from one entry on Google to hundreds? I would not like that kind of infamy. A hero? Yeah, what a blast to be threatened by a mass killer? I am sorry but if she HAD NOT GONE to the authorities and filed for the order of protection and he had gone and killed 15 people she would be called names and attacked and questioned and blamed for the deaths. So this woman could not win either way. She did not choose to be in this position. It’s a thankless job she was doing. Leave her alone. She must be devastated.

  16. Jan, you are an idiot and have no sympathy at all. You are totally making up all of that crap about her having stars in her eyes. No one would sign up to be involved in this mess. Read the report she made! I have read plenty of reports and she sounds like a very scared woman. Maybe you should be hung by your hair because you are the one who sounds like a jerk! Is it her fault she was hired to do group counseling with an AA? I did group counseling with a BA and no experience right out of college. You do the best you can. Is it her fault she was hired and was doing her job? Why don’t you blame someone who has some power? She was a counselor. As I said before, counselor is a generic term. To be a licensed counselor is another thing entirely. She was not that and never claimed to be! Exactly what makes you think she was elated to be threatened and scared for her life? Would you want be threatened by Ted Bundy or the guy who shot the people at Virginia Tech? My God, you are dense.

  17. And by the way, the fact that she has an AA degree is irrelevant. I don’t care if you have the whole alphabet behind your name, Jan. You are still saying ridiculous things. ANYONE in a position as any type of counselor has a duty to warn authorities if someone appears to be a danger to themselves or others. It is the law! And anyone who feels threatened is entitled to file an order for protection- AND SHOULD. You obviously know nothing about counselors or orders for protection. And you can’t even spell counselor.

  18. Gregory’s Girl;

    Well, I just think that before the MSM goes off ripping this guy to shreds and casting him as definately THE anthrax killer, then they should have more to go on than her hearsay testimony, which, by the way, wasn’t even in a court… it was an unsubstanciated COMPLAINT that had yet to be resolved.

    I mean, this is America, right? Does the accusation mean he’s guilty?

    Look, clearly you are projecting yourself onto this Duley person’s situation.

    you have already said, that YOU were a substance abuse counselor and that YOU had someone similar to this situation and the YOU had to file a restraining order as well.

    Do you remember (I know you are going to freak out when I make this connection, but I just have to) when that woman came forward and claimed she was raped by those Duke guys?

    (don’t pull your hair out… just hear me out)

    Look, I don’t automaticly think people misuse the Stalking statutes or the Orders of Protection. And I don’t think that I have some problem with believing women, I don’t. But, in this case…


    Now, I mentioned the Duke case for a reason. When the evidence started seeping through, that the case was full of holes, it took longer than it should have to really investigate because people kept tying her story in with the plight of all women’s storys about being raped.

    People where mapping their own trials and experiences on this story, which did nothing to help in the long run.

    You are passionately involved with protecting this woman’s integrity, even though you know absolutely NOTHING about her…. except for the fact that YOU have a similar story.

    With the contradictory evidence present, and the fact that the FBI was so deeply involved, that gives me reason to pause and look at the story as closely as I can.

    I would recommend that you apply your clinical skills of yesteryear to this issue. You are not her and just because your case was justified, doesn’t mean hers is. Your empathy, though maybe highly tuned, can’t reach out acroos the country (or where ever you are) to detect her rightness that easily.

    It takes a little more work than that.

  19. Gregory’s Girl;
    I just read all the hateful things you said to Jan there. You must have been one hell of a counselor.

    You are just going on and on and on making up the story as you go. it’s like you have known this woman your whole life; like you’re feeding off your own misplaced emotional connection to yet another “wronged woman”, with absolutely nothing to base that on.

    I mean, nothing. You don’t know anything more about her story than we do.

    But that doesn’t stop you from making a saint out of her, just because she filed a compaint, that no one really knows if its true or not yet.

    Except you. it’s a good thing you got out of that line of work.

    You say:

    “She most likely has a 4-year degree from a university and not a Masters degree. In most states I think you have to have a Masters degree and work for a period of time under someone to be eligible for licensure.”

    but then, once her degree status is found by Jan, you contradict yourself immediately:

    “And by the way, the fact that she has an AA degree is irrelevant.”

    then you say

    “Jan , you need to ease up on your name-calling and such.”

    but immediately you start right in with:

    “Jan, you are an idiot…”

    So, quite frankly, you add nothing more to the disucssion as that we have already heard about how similar you and she are, and so therefore she is to be trusted and we should “leave her alone”…

    … but unfortunately, Dr. Ivins still has a family out there, and people around here are smart enough to know how to seperate themselves from the issue at hand.

    That is, MOST of us. And for that matter, we also don’s take to insulting each other to try to make outselves feel smarter.

    So good bye, Greg’s Girl. Best of luck to you.

  20. and one more thing, Greg’s Girl….

    i just listened to this recording of her testimony.

    She’s lying through her teeth. She paint’s the typical, terrify the masses, co-worker’s got a gun story, then tosses in the terrified commuter’s horror of “guy walking down the street stabbing people” story…

    That is just complete bullshit. without a doubt. No questions, no equivication; she is lying.

    Lying. period. this man, if he had been the killer, would have killed again, but he didn’t. he had no reason to send anthrax to those specific people. and he was a VACCINE SPECIALIST and not a person who even handled weapons grade anthrax.

    This woman lies and says he was trying to kill people in 2000? What a bunch of bullshit. how the fuck would she know that and why the fuck would he still be at the weapons plant if that is the kind of person he was?

    Not only is she lying, but her story is incredibly stupid. and if you believe it, well, figure that out yourself.

    you see, that’s the problem with superimposing yourself onto the stories of others; you lose the objectivity you need to be able to analysis the story on a purely logical basis.

    she is lying and her story is incredibly stupid. it is tailor made to neatly wrap up this anthrax issue right after the other fiasco. You would have to be brain dead to believe this trash.

    I guess that is why the judge let Dr. Ivins go home… he din’t believe this shit either.


  21. Thank you for your article. I know the Ivins family. They are very involved in their community. Ms Duley seems to be the only one with any death threat stories involving Bruce Ivins. Did anyone read the document she filed with the court. Please publicize the school she received her degree from so other people know not to attend such an inept institution.
    The Ivins family have been through a lot as they have been the main focus of this investigation. I hope that someone can clear Dr Ivins’ name. He certainly deserves to be cleared. He and his family have been a great asset to our community through all their volunteering with school, Church and community.

  22. Ms. Freeze;
    I know that I can speak for many others here when I tell you that we feel great sympathy for the loss the Ivins family has suffered this past week. The pain of the remaining family members is altogether too often forgotten by the media at times like these. And it is often neglected by people like myself as well.
    I will tell you this; I know that this story is deeply flawed and you can tell from my writing, I knew it when the story first broke. I knew it… but I didn’t feel it.
    Not until I heard that recording of Duley giving her testimony. That woman is lying and I can hear it, just as sure as I can hear it in many of our “leaders” these days. And I for one am getting sick of being lied to about things that matter.
    And this matters.
    So I want you to know, and I want the people of your community and church and school to know, and I want the Ivins family to know, that there are so many of us out here that see past the horrible things that Duley said, and that ABC and others are repeating.
    We do see past it, and we will continue to help others to do the same.
    We will not be distracted by the passage of time.
    As far as clearing Dr. Ivins name, you should look into Glenn Greenwalds and Justin Raimondos work. they have really been producing some great research on the topic.



    Thank you for commenting, it really puts things into perspective for me. We will find the truth about this and we will continue to do all we can to expose the truth about this case.

  23. Apparently Ms Duley holds a BSW-CSC-AD, which in the State of Maryland allows her to be an alcohol abuse counselor. I don’t think that qualifies her to make a judgment of homicidal behavior , with the potential for mass murder. It qualifies her to talk about alcohol abuse with her client, in this case, Mr. Ivins. None of the articles I have read have mentioned that Mr. Ivins was being treated for alcohol abuse …only that he was in “group therapy,” or “therapy,” or that she was his “therapist.” I find these statements to be very misleading, because the assumption is that he was being treated for depression of some personality disorder, or grave mental illness. Why hasn’t the media researched this simple fact? I found it in about 2 minutes by looking up Ms. Duley and her degree, and then the Alcohol and Drug Overview Certification Process at the Maryuland Dept. of Health & Mental Hygiene.

    I,too, find it extremely suspicious that this woman, largely unqualified to make such a diagnosis, has been so forthcoming in the press with her opinions, and suspiciousloy filed her
    request for a Protection Order just before Mr. Ivins’ “suicide.” I’d like to see the coroner’s report on cause of death. I’d like to have a full investigation of Ms. Duley’s background, ie, does she have any links to anyone in the Bush Administration.

  24. Excuse me, now I read that Ms Duley received the diagnosis she so willingly repeated to the press from “Ivins’ psychiatrist,” but NOWHERE can I find an article that NAMES that psychiatrist. Anyone?

  25. ALL of the imputation of homicidal intent, psychosis, etc. etc., come from Jean Duley, who saw him for six months, allegedly on the basis of depression. Yes, he had psychiatric hospitalizations – but those were based on her reporting of the alleged mass murder threats.
    Pru, if you read the scrawled accusations reproduced here, the psychiatrist is named as David Irwin.

  26. And, oh, yes, with the FBI parked down the street and the innuendos and destruction of character, who wouldn’t be depressed. Finally, because of Duley’s intervention, he is forcibly removed from his office – but doesn’t kill her, only himself.

  27. One other interesting fact. Dr Ivens died from an overdose of Tylenol-3 after TWO DAYS in the Hospital.

    Jane Duley testifies that she has worked at the facility for six months, then testifies that is how long Ivins had been treated there.

    The truth shall set you free.

  28. During the CNN coverage audio statements by Jean Duley were glaring in that she kept saying uh…….uh…uh…uh…between inane comments regarding Dr. Ivins mental status. I wonder where this Jean Duley was dredged up? Sounds like a FBI orchestrated character assassination with this barley credible psychiatric social worker(if that!) playing a part! Mainstream media “runs with” everything and never questions anything! Wonderful journalism as usual!

  29. Yep, I caught that as well. she also starts to say she has evidence to support her claims, then stops mid sentence.

    And you can tell, she is running off the laundry list of accusations, as if… maybe she memorized them?

    check out “The FBI’s New Patsy; Jean Duley”


    thanks for the comment

  30. Hey Gregory Girl, Willyloman said it all for me and I agree with him. I do have some information for you though. If you listen to Jane’s audio tape you will hear her say that she was hired to be ‘Program Director’; you know… to answer phones and set up appointments and sked ‘programs’ as requested for needed intake of clients; maybe even keep up with the numbers on programs attended and possible positive outcomes; probably had a lot of folder and data input to do also. Now why would she be placed in charge of a therapy group? Maybe not enough professionals avaiable to handle the work load? She was probably given the least-problematic group…. the one Dr. Ivins was in. Zendeviat (posted above this post) says that she was hired in the same period that Ivins was starting his group discussions. Strange?!
    I am a woman also…. I have heard women talk about ‘getting’ someone back… usually men…. by making false statements… it is so easy to do…. Willyloman has given you a fine example of that.
    I am open-minded… if the facts are confusing then it usually means someone hasn’t had time to cover up all the stray threads.
    And this piece of fabricated shit has so many stray threads that any thinking person would realize it was full of worms… probably a pin-worm infection that was forcibly injested.
    Jane no longer works …. guess she completed her job… maybe she is an undercover agent? Ha…. a little joke there.
    NO… I do not protect her because she is a woman. She did a cruel and divious act…. hang her by her hair until she starves.
    BTW….. you sound like you could use a little counseling yourself….. hope you are having a more peaceful day…. take a pill….

  31. opps… I misspelled another word… sorry, Gregory Girl…. maybe you won’t notice it. ; )

  32. BTW Willyloman, why am I a pink dark glass wearing fish? Is that a fish? Can I be a smily thing? Maybe round or square… you know… something more stable looking…. Is that my pink feet protruding and my little ears sticking up?
    they are funny…

  33. Willy, don’t be suprised if soon, Ms Duley becomes the next dead witness in all this. After all, Dead witnesses don’t talk. Ask Lee Harvey Oswald.

    Hey Jan, I was just about to dive bomb Georgies bitch, im sorry, i mean girl, but Willy got in ahead of me.

  34. Thanks, Scott…. I appreciate that. It will be something to keep an eye on; wouldn’t that be odd if she disappears… you know like they pay her to leave the country. Nahhh
    We have wild imaginations… they can’t take that away from us… (they can’t , can they?)
    I like your little green guy… you have hair and a nose……
    a long springy one.. but a nose!

  35. There is a psychiatrist named David Irwin, said to specialize in forensic psychiatry, in Gaithersburg, Maryland.


  36. Interesting. This David Irwin, if the same man, did part of his residency at Walter Reed Army Hospital. Coincidence that his background is in Army hospitals and his specialty is in “forensic” (as in, after the patient is dead) psychology?

  37. Democracy Now (democracynow.org) just revealed in their daily broadcast that Jean Duley has a criminal background. She is not a credible witness.

  38. question to Interested Bystander: is that really what ‘forensic psychology’ means? they form opinions of a person’s mind after that person has passed away? How crazy is that?

  39. Jan, no — I was a little off on that. Forensic psychiatry does that sometimes, but actually it also encompasses most of the psychological evaluations that are tied up with the legal system (such as, Is someone fit to stand trial? Is someone actually mentally ill or just faking it? etc.)

    Still a very strange person to be Ivins psychiatrist — unless Ivins was already involved in court proceedings or something similar, why would this type of psychiatrist be treating him or even meeting with him?

    Curiouser and curioser.

  40. Was Dr. Bruce Ivins obsessed with Kappa Kappa Gamma the “Curveball Connection”?

    I find it interesting that it is stated as fact, that Ivins was obsessed with the Kappa Kappa Gamma Sorority but there is scant evidence that this obsession existed at all. He may or may not have had a girlfriend or been rebuffed by a girl that was in that sorority in college in Cincinnati, he may or may not have been to a college campuses within the last 30 years where there may or may not have been a Kappa Kappa Gamma Sorority.

  41. Since Jean Duley is apparently a part-time drunk student without professional credentials, does she work for the Russian mob, a South African mad scientist, or a foreign government? Why is a top scientist dead if she hadn’t improperly sent him to the gulag for psychological retraining? How can a prisoner die in police custody?

  42. Interested Bystander, thanks qualifying that for me; yes, the case is over grown with strange weeds….. and seemingly no roots… just cut weeds thrown over the the image of Dr. Ivins.
    Well, I’m tossing a dozen white roses…….

  43. The only crime this Jean Duley committed it perhaps being a little undereducated and “out of her league” with respect to the patient she was dealing with. The TO does seem pretty much unsubstantiated…It would be interesting to see where the opinion of the actual professionals was–the ones she refers to.

    As for Ivins–what a fascinating case…Juggling doesn’t exclude psychopathy–remember John Wayne Gacy was a clown after all. neither does high level government clearance or any of the other things. No one can know because none of us here have talked to the guy. It does seem like he was a polarizing figure(did anyone listen to his brother talking about it–happy he was dead….creepy) and it does have the stench of a very intelligent psychopath.

  44. I for one am not entirely convinced that Dr. Ivins was completely innocent, but neither do I believe all of the crazy stories now coming out about him. The stories just don’t hold up to logical enquiry.

    Consider this — Ivins worked FOR the federal government/Army at a top secret research facility. He may have been ordered to do certain things (provide the anthrax, for example, but not necessarily mail it) He may not have known what the ultimate outcome of some of his actions would be — and maybe was not a strong enough person to stand up to or question his “bosses”. There may have been some guilt on his part, but now will we ever know? Meanwhile fantastic stories are told about him, basically trying him in the court of public opinion and destroying his reputation as well as ruining his family’s lives. What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Where’s the proof? (I mean “proof” that doesn’t fall apart when the “facts” of it are closely examined.

    I have a relative who used to work at Detrick (long before Ivins was there). Though long retired, they are still not at liberty to discuss certain things, as they signed security agreements that are forever binding — or risk being labeled a “traitor”. Perhaps Ivins knew things and was willing to talk (whether he was involved or not — I am convinced, as is my contact, that he could not have pulled this off alone). Maybe “taking everyone with him” was not about killing but rather about exposing his collaborators (or those who duped him, or whatever)?

    I just know that this story as told by the mainstream media bears no resemblance to any sensible sequence of events — believe me, if someone with Ivins’ security clearance was known in any way to be “homocidal”, “suicidal”, or just depressed enough to need treatment they would be reassigned to research other than anthrax or the like (at least until they were deemed fit to return). Individuals doing this research are continuously scruntinized by the FBI — their neighbors are questioned on a regular basis, etc. even if nothing is “suspected” of them. So if Ivins was showing any signs of being disfunctional or disturbed in any way, his life would have been put under the microscope long before this, and he would not have been allowed to continue that particular research.

    The alternative? If our top security clearance procedures are that lax, I really am scared! (And that would be another big expose, I would think.)

  45. Helo
    Dana, Dr. Ivins’ brother, Tom, said that of the three of them (there were three brothers) He (tom) was the only REAL man of the three. He said that his OTHER TWO brothers were both omnipotent… Tom said that the baby (Dr. Ivins) of the family was spoiled by the mother. He said that he has not spoken or heard of Dr. Ivins for 23 years. That also means that Dr. Ivins might have had reasons to not want to speak to Tom. Tom sounds like ‘he’ is the one who has a problem.

  46. Psychology is as purely subjective as biology is objective, so it seems appropriate that Ivins would scorn psychiatry as a sham science. Perhaps some of that scorn was taken personally by Ms Duley causing her to take revenge against Ivins. Irregardless, this affair testifies to the breakup and coming collapse of the American government. The Americans are no more able to stand up against the wicked rulers of this earth than the Iraquis or the Darfurians, it seems. (Read Howard Zinn’s new book.) We all better be trying to get inside of the fortress–the one that the gates of hell will not prevail against–I think.

  47. Ralph Crawford, where is that fortress? I need to know…..

  48. Jesus to Peter: “Upon this rock ( from petra–meaning Peter) I found my Church. And the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.” In the future as wickedness overwhelms the earth those who are saved by Jesus will be protected by the Church. The Protestant denominations will return to the fold having learned that the Evil of the world is too powerful to be fought in a fragmented way. The Eastern and Western (Roman) Catholics will reunite causing the world to be populated by three billion unified practitioners of the Sermon on the Mountain. Were it not for Jesus, the ruling-class monsters of the world would have enslaved everyone long ago. Are you saved, Jan?

  49. The ruling-monsters have always enslaved others in every nation and of every religion….. Jesus said to love one and another… have respect for others…. that means if another religion loves God and respects others and strives for peace and equally rights for all… then they are saved too. You don’t have to be Catholic to be loved by God.
    yes… Luthern saved
    We have ‘pretenders of faith’ creating evil now…..

  50. Do you like Matthew Arnold’s poem called “Dover Beach?”




  52. I was in class with Mr Ivins. I also was consuled in group by Jean Duley. The last time I saw Mr Ivins was when he was in group and they announced that he was going to a treatment facility for 30 days and that he would not be in group I was out for a month when I went back both Jean who I had a wonderful releationship with and a guy she said she was training when I had my first appointment that was always doing group with her were gone. I dont watch the news much I had no idea of this stuff. I asked where Jean was they said they made changes. So all the group sessions I paid for were just crap? They are now done by the owner of the place. This stuff is crazy to me. I sat beside Mr. Ivins in the waiting room a few times we were both usually early he was always nice to me. I was told she had been clean for 15 years. I put a lot of trust in these people. Is this legal….

  53. extremely valuable material, all round I picture this is worthy of a bookmark, thanks

  54. How weird that Jean Duley handwriting style is exactly the same as Ivins 2000 police report to the police. Was he also Jean Duley? Along with all his other alias?

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